STEVE GOLDSTEIN: Concerns about economic inequality have become a regular part of the political debate in the U.S. for the past decade or so. But the intensity has increased as the COVID-19 pandemic has led to near-record unemployment figures in many states. In a similar category is economic dignity, and a large percentage of people have been able to achieve that by having regular, consistent employment. Gene Sperling, former director of the National Economic Council under both Presidents Clinton and Obama, has written a book titled "Economic Dignity" and is with me to talk about it. Gene, how does our current situation illustrate the importance of this concept of economic dignity?

GENE SPERLING: One of the things I quote in the book is Martin Luther King's speech to the Memphis Sanitation Workers Strike in 1968. It's his famous speech where he says all labor has dignity. But the line that he says that's, that's very powerful is that, that someday our nation will realize that the sanitation worker is as essential as the physician for our well-being. And I feel like this is this moment. We are now, for some reason, now is making us realize that the farm worker, that the home health care worker, that the domestic worker, that the delivery worker that, that they're essential to our lives and yet we don't treat them as essential, not just in terms of not having a living wage, but the basic things that you are part of a dignified life, being able to take time off for a newborn, being able to be there for a parent in their in their final days or months. These are things that we deny millions of people in our economy. And today, when they're, it's so clear that they're putting their lives on the line for us, I think it's, it's becoming very hard for us to, to rightly accept that these home health care workers, many of them couldn't take a day of paid sick leave off with their own child or that 50% of the people providing us food don't have health care. And so I do think that, that it is, in a sense, a real moment for economic dignity, not just how we treat these essential workers now, but whether it changes our view and inspires us to build a richer and stronger compact of economic dignity going forward.

GOLDSTEIN: So what are some basics to get us back on track? And though none of us wanted this, is this moment in time something that is, in fact, as you suggest, making people stand up and take notice that we do need to find a way to change the system to provide more of this dignity to the broader swath of Americans?

SPERLING: To maybe shine a very small light of positivity, we've seen some progress. Some, not enough. For example, there is some universal paid sick leave. People are realizing, "Geez, if people have to come to work sick because they can't take a day off, that, that's not only wrong morally, that puts the rest of us at risk." We now, for the first time ever, are providing unemployment insurance to people who don't have traditional jobs — they're gig workers, they're domestic workers. How did we ever have a country where tens of millions couldn't get unemployment insurance? The question is, are these temporary things that will go away or will we build them up stronger during the crisis? And then once we've done them, will we realize that that, you know, how did we ever have a world where people worked hard, put their lives on the line for all of us and couldn't provide their family with health care or a living wage? You know, I don't feel like these are radical or super left agenda. I think the notion that if you work hard, that you should be able to provide your family with a degree of dignity. You can see that what Adam Smith wrote, you can see that in a beautiful quote by Teddy Roosevelt about the importance of a living wage. In 1912, 108 years ago, this is a longstanding American value; that if you do your part, you should be able to work with dignity, raise your family with dignity and retire with dignity.

GOLDSTEIN: How much of that dignity comes from just having the basics to be able to take care of one's family? As an offshoot of that, what do you make of some of the ideas coming out in the midst of this recession to provide monthly checks to people, for example?

SPERLING: You know, I think we're seeing more power in having that kind of dignity agenda. I think that what you speak of goes to a real problem, which is losing a job in the United States is more harmful and painful to your dignity than almost anywhere. It's always tough to lose a job, but most countries, that doesn't mean you're going to lose your house, it doesn't even mean you'll lose your health care. It's a temporary thing. We make job loss in our country more devastating and so a person can work hard for 20, 30 years but if they go through one period in a financial crisis that is not of their own doing, they can lose virtually everything. So an economic dignity agenda recognizes it's not just about your average median wage, it's about can you can you thrive and survive with dignity, even in good and bad times? And this is a great moment for us because we have the capacity to help workers who've lost their job due to a pandemic, clearly not their own doing. Can they keep the lights on? Can they support their family? Can they stay in their home so that they're ready to come back? But also so they don't lose all of the dignity they have in providing for their children just because they happen to be alive and working during a once in 102-year pandemic.

GOLDSTEIN: Where does dignity come as we try to get out of this path of inequality? How much of a battle is it, frankly, especially this world of politics where we find ourselves in? You worked for a couple of administrations. You had to battle through a lot, I'm sure.

SPERLING: Y'know, you don't see Americans upset that an Oprah Winfrey or a Bill Gates or somebody who is contributing is doing well or has a certain amount of wealth. What they don't want is when the inequality in our country means that, that exactly this: That some people are denied these basic levels of dignity that are really universal. I mean, if there's one thing that's God-given, it's that our greatest moments of joy and meaning often come through the birth of our family being there, birth of our children being there for the key moments of loved ones during life. And when you have an economy that doesn't allow that, then I think that ... And yet fosters so much inequality. It's not just about reducing the wealth of the super wealthy. It's about what kind of economy are you building. And I think what we have to start with is, everyone has a level of basic economic dignity, a living wage, health care, universal paid leave, or right to have a collective voice to stand up for yourself. These are things that we can guarantee for all Americans. It doesn't mean you don't have capitalism. It doesn't mean that some people aren't going to make more or have nicer houses. But it's based not on an exploitation or the suffering of others, but based on a foundation where everyone has a guarantee of a basic level of economic dignity and raising their family at their work and in their retirement.

GOLDSTEIN: That is Gene Sperling. He was director of the National Economic Council under both President Obama and President Clinton. His new book is called "Economic Dignity." Gene, thanks so much for the time and stay well, we appreciate it.

SPERLING: Thank you so much for having me.

More Stories From KJZZ

• Few Have Been Helped By AZ Eviction Prevention Program
  
• Arizona Researcher, Lawmaker Call For State Unemployment Reform